Sally (Stroke): Full Episode - Recovery from a stroke on the operating table

Episode 2: Full episode - Sally Callie - Recovery from a stroke on the operating table (Stroke).

In this episode we meet Sally Callie, triple Olympian, a world record holder and an U23 world champion in the sport of rowing, who's also a mother, a teacher and a stroke survivor. Following the birth of Sally's second child in 2011 she experienced a seizure and upon returning to hospital discovered that she had a blood vessel deep within her brain which was ready to rupture. Sally needed to undergo brain surgery to remove the blood vessel and though this was successful, she awoke from the surgery to find that she could not move half of her body.

We meet Sally and hear about her Olympic career and the lessons she learned. We hear about the stroke itself, what caused it and we discuss her rehab, her determination and the lessons she was able to draw from her sporting career to assist her to regain her high quality of life.

Full transcripts and show notes are available for each chapter on the podcast website: storiesofrecovery.buzzsprout.com

Sally's recommendations:

• 12:41 - Work hard on your mindset "We can't choose what happens to us, but we can choose our response to it",
• 13:35 - Use visualisation to picture yourself in a powerful, confident state to prepare yourself for difficult/scary situations (in Sally's case a 7 hour craniotomy with a 20% chance of stroke, paralysis, coma or death),
• 19:15 & 27:30 & 36:20 - Use the initial 90 day period to push hard for all the improvement you can (Sally pretended that she was training for the London Olympics), and know that you WILL continue to recover after this time with dedicated effort,
• 20:45 & 33:45 - Visualisation - the beginning of Sally's recovery & how to do it. Visualise an activity which you are already very familiar with (using all of your senses),
• 31:30 - Read (or listen) to the book 'The Brain That Changes Itself - by Norman Doidge',
• 32:55 & 37:30 & 1:01:15- Take ownership of your recovery and your rehab. Set goals that YOU are motivated by (for Sally this was to run again, and to wakeboard again),
• 39:30 - If you are angry, channel it into your recovery. Take charge of your recovery,
• 46:00 & 1:12:00 - Set and be strict with your habits. Sally recommends making a checklist and ticking each item off each day: getting 8 hours of sleep, eating healthy and nutritious food, speaking positively and supportively to yourself, writing down three things that you are grateful for each day, and writing down the tiny 1% improvements,
• 47:10 - Read up on the latest research on stroke recovery and apply it yourself,
• 47:55 - Constraint Induced therapy (CI therapy) is very helpful recovering from stroke,
• 50:00 - Know that "being a stroke survivor is twice as hard as going to three Olympics",
• 52:18 - Read about Kintsugi and Wabi-Sabi. Redefine your perceptions of imperfection,
• 54:20 - Practise Sally's acronym of GOLD (Gratitude, Obstacles have meaning, Leading from within & Daily habits - the biggest one), 
• 57:00 - For someone leaving the rehab centre: 1. Get your daily habits right (sleep, food, good support, books, positive self talk etc.), 2. Try to make sense of what has happened. Look for the opportunities and positives in your new situation to find meaning, 3. Begin to redefine imperfection and celebrate your point of difference. Own your new self, 
• 1:15:19 - Start an AWAP Journal - 'As many Wins As Possible'. Celebrate the 1% wins.

For more detailed show notes, see the individual chapter sections on the podcast website.

Chapters

• 0:00 Chapter 1: Rowing, life & suffering a stroke
• 24:01 Chapter 2: Rehab & taking ownership
• 46:06 Chapter 3: Looking back & the key learnings
• 1:03:21 Chapter 4: The Olymics & the recovery lessons learned there

Transcript

Robbie Frawley  0:25  
Welcome to Stories of Recovery. My name is Robbie Frawley and on this podcast I interview people who have experienced and recovered from brain related conditions such as stroke, concussion, chronic pain and traumatic brain injury. We'll discuss their story and highlight the things which have been most beneficial and most important in their recovery. This might be specific treatments or medical professionals that were most crucial. It could be books, knowledge or advice which they were given or which they found along the way, or any particular habits, attitudes, or practices that helped them the most. If you or someone you care about is struggling to recover from one of these or another brain related condition, the podcast was really made with you in mind, I want you to know that others have been where you are now. And that they have gotten better. You can recover and hopefully in the interviews that follow, you will hear a thing or two which resonate and which help you to do just that. So who am I? Well, I'm a young man who grew up in country Victoria, Australia. And I've had a number of concussions growing up playing sport. After the last one, which was over seven years ago, now, I developed something called post concussion syndrome. I'd never even heard of this. But it left me with ongoing fatigue, headaches, nausea, vertigo, cognitive fog, overwhelm, and sensitivity to impact. It had a really dramatic effect on my life. And it took many years much effort and great assistance from others to fully recover from it. And now that I am back to 100%, and again, have some surplus energy, I'd like to help you in any way I can to get you back to good health. My hope is that we can provide some light at the end of the tunnel for you. And also give you some useful tips and tricks that might help you along the way. Now, one thing to remember is that the brain is a really marvellous thing and you CAN get better. I've left in as much of the context, detail and information in these interviews as possible, which means they can be quite long, just under one and a half hours for this first one. But they're split into key chapters to make it easier to listen and to help you to focus on what you need to hear right now. And remember that you can pause and come back to the story in as many small bites as you need. Now, without further ado, let's jump into it. 

Robbie Frawley  2:59  
In this episode, I'm speaking with Sally Callie, a triple Olympian, a world record holder, and a world champion in the sport of rowing, who's also a mother, a teacher and a stroke survivor. Following the birth of Sally's second child in 2011, she experienced a seizure and upon returning to hospital, discovered that she had a blood vessel deep within her brain which was ready to rupture. She needed to undergo brain surgery to remove the blood vessel and though this was successful, she awoke from the surgery to find that she could not move half of her body. She had suffered a stroke on the operating table and this is when a whole new journey began. One in which she drew out all of the learnings from her Olympic career. This conversation took place remotely in October this year, following several delayed attempts to catch up in person due to COVID border restrictions. It's always been my intention to record all interviews for this podcast in person to capture the best possible sound quality for your ears, however, as this was going to further delay the launch of the podcast, and this episode from reaching your ears, we've decided to utilise the power of technology to assist bringing this story to you earlier. As a result, this conversation took place in two places at once, both on the lands of the Gunditjmara people of southwestern Victoria, and the Turrbal and Yuggera people of southeast Queensland, and I would like to acknowledge them both as traditional owners of their respective land. I'd also like to pay my respects to their elders past and present and Aboriginal elders of other communities who may be listening to this conversation. I wish you courage and energy on your own journey forward. And I hope you enjoy this wide ranging conversation.

Robbie Frawley  5:09  
We've been lining up this conversation for some time now, and even though we're still far, far away from one another, it's really nice just to have a chat to you and to see you on the screen and yeah, just actually have a conversation face to face in some means.

Sally Callie  5:27  
Yeah, it's long, long overdue, isn't it? Absolutely. Yes,

Robbie Frawley  5:31  
It is. Now, you have a very impressive sporting resume, three Olympics, a world record, gold at the under 23 World Championships. To give people some context for your life preceding your stroke. Are you able to tell me a little bit about your sport? And how you got into that? 

Sally Callie  5:48  
Yeah sure. It was actually by chance that I got into rowing. I love my sport and I was a bit of a cross country runner, actually. But I was in Year 11 and I was sitting in a school assembly, and a visitor came into the school and asked three questions to the school cohort. Are you tall? Are you 16? & would you like to go to the Olympic Games? Now at that stage, the Olympics was something I dreamt of and I was definitely tall. So I put my hand up in the hope that I got selected. They grabbed kids from all over the state, and they brought them down to the Sports Institute and measured them up. Now your arm span had to be longer than your height and (they did a) power and endurance test and a whole lot of anthropometrical testing. They narrowed those kids down to 10 Boys and 10 Girls, and told us that we were going to be the future Olympic champions of rowing. Now, at this stage, I'd never rowed before, and no one else had ever rowed before and I think that was by design, that they'd gone to schools that didn't offer rowing. They interviewed the parents to make sure the parents were as committed as the potential athletes and interestingly, before we could even get into a boat, they asked us to commit to four goals. So we sat upstairs in the boathouse, and I know in Melbourne, you know, boathouses quite well, we have some in South Australia. We sat up there and they said in your first year, you need to learn how to row but also be good enough to be selected for the World Junior Championships, in Norway. Now that was massive and saying that to you know, a 16 year old... 'Norway', I mean, that was enough to get me started. Then in your second and third year, the world senior championships in the USA, and Finland. And then the fourth year, the Olympic Games in Atlanta. So I mean, pretty exciting stuff when you're that age All the travel that they talked about. So I was pretty locked in. I decided to give up my cross country running and give everything I had to this new sport called rowing. You know, being a 16 year old kid, you think your future is set. I thought I'd just finish off year and relocate to the Australian Institute of Sport, and then turn up to the Olympics, pick up the gold medal and rake up all those ticker tape parades. But obviously, it wasn't that easy. So interestingly, training was twice a day. And it was six days a week. Training started at 5am and that was a big shock for a lot of the kids, a lot of the athletes. The dropout rate was enormous. But it was my best friend and I that managed to stay and push our way through to that first World Junior Championship together, she ended up winning a gold in the pair and I won silver in a single. And we went on to do many world championships and Olympic games together. So it was a really exciting talent identification programme. And it was pretty successful. Many of the athletes, you know, within four years were were standing in the opening ceremony at the Olympic Games. And you know, to tell you the truth, Robbie, it was, it was amazing, to be four years learning to row to get into the games was, you just a dream come true. Those four years were quite crazy, you know, going from a school kid to an Olympic athlete and managing all that schoolwork and the extra training. But I look back on those incredible psychological lessons that we learn as athletes, and, I look back and those were the lessons that I guess saved my life when I had the stroke, so those lessons were priceless. The physical training was relentless, but that psychological training, that was just priceless. The things that we learn through sport is amazing.

Robbie Frawley  9:23  
Beautiful. All right. Well, then let's move forward. So I'm guessing this was around 2012? When you just come back from the Olympics, is that right? What was the time period?

Sally Callie  9:36  
So I finished in... my last Olympics was 2004. And then I had two children after that and it was the child that I had in 2011. That caused the stroke. That caused the brain issue. 

Robbie Frawley  9:51  
Yeah. Do you want to talk us through that in as much or as little detail as you like?

Sally Callie  9:55  
Yeah, I guess I was at that point where life was perfect. Married, job, you know a child, and then pregnant with the second child. And that second child, everything went to plan. But two weeks after giving birth to that second child, I had a seizure. So, immediately after the seizure, I went in and had an MRI to see what caused the seizure. And they found what we call an arteriovenous malformation, so an AVM and it's a cluster of blood vessels that you're born with, that have been with me through my whole life, and perhaps bleeds under stress. So I guess the stress of childbirth brought on a seizure. The neurosurgeon said straight out to me, you've got two choices, you can either leave it, but it will cause a catastrophic stroke, or you can have brain surgery, which comes with a 20% chance of fatality. So I had a newborn baby and a one year old, and I had, you know, some big decisions to make. Part of me wanted to leave it because I thought I wanted just to be a mother, I had this real urge to at least mother, my kids for the next few years. But the other part thought I need to get this little nugget out and carry on. So I negotiated with my surgeon to delay the surgery by six months, and that was the best decision I've ever made. Because that six months were the best six months of my life, you know, full of, I guess, love and compassion and gratitude, and it just really gave me this feeling that I had a second chance at being able to do what I wanted to do before that operation came. So I look back on that six months, and I made sure every day was filled with looking at every sunset and sunrise and spending time with my kids and calling friends that I had lost touch with. It was a real motivation. You know, when you're being told that you've got a 20% (chance of) fatality coming in your direction.

Sally Callie  9:56  
Yeah, that's incredible. The other thing that it makes me think of is that he said, "a period of stress can cause this" and I just thought "well you've just been through three Olympics!". You've pushed your body so hard, and it could have theoretically gone during any of those.

Sally Callie  12:11  
Absolutely. That's right Robbie, and I look at rowing at the Olympic Games and if any of your audience knows anything about rowing, those ergometers, those two kilometre ergos we do, they are equivalent to childbirth. There isn't any difference to (childbirth). Rowing is a really tough sport. So I do feel very, very fortunate that I got three Olympic Games out, I got two kids out, and then this thing happened. So that six months was just gratitude. I just felt like the luckiest person on earth. And I think I really worked hard on my mindset, because it's pretty easy to go the other way. You know, we can't control what happens to us. But we can choose our response. And I did sink into that direction of why me? You know, why? Why is this happening to me? But I was able to recognise that pretty quickly and turn my mindset around. How lucky am I? You know, to have a second chance at life, this thing was meant to kill me and it didn't. And here I am now having the opportunity to have some surgery.

Robbie Frawley  13:06  
And so then when you did go in for the surgery. Do you want to just talk through what happened at that point?

Sally Callie  13:13  
Yeah, so that day finally arrived. After six months, I found myself in hospital. I was pretty nervous to be honest. You know I had my parents with me, they'd flown from Adelaide over to New Zealand, because that's where I was at the moment. We happened to be living in New Zealand for a couple of years when this happened, so I had to have all the surgery in New Zealand. So, you know, I was lying on the operating table, and the only way I knew how to deal with that sort of stress was through performance, you know, through rowing. So I can remember lying on my back and closing my eyes 

Robbie Frawley  13:49  
Before the surgery? 

Sally Callie  13:50  
Yes, yeah. So as they're preparing me I remember lying on my back and visualising the rowing boat, I had myself on the start line of a race. And I could feel the oars in my hand, and I could feel the adrenaline in my legs and I just could hear the umpire call my name up to the start line. I felt that inner athlete in me and I was just so determined to win the race. And I remember that mindset of drawing into a place or a time where you felt success and powerful, really helped me, to I guess stay strong in that moment where you're about to go in for a seven hour surgery.

Robbie Frawley  14:27  
With a realistic chance of...

Sally Callie  14:28  
Yeah, yeah. Because you don't know if you're going to wake up when there's a 20% chance that you won't survive this. They said there was a 20% chance of stroke paralysis, coma or death. That was what the I had to sign. You know, before you go in, you sign the agreement. And that was what was stated. So I was incredibly nervous at that period of time. But the craniotomy took seven hours, and thankfully it was a success in the point that the AVM was surgically removed. But I woke up in intensive care and I was paralysed down one side of the body. The MRI revealed that I'd survived a stroke during the surgery. Robbie, I felt like an athlete in an infant's body because I was just lifeless, you know, I was unable to move. I couldn't escape the physical form. You know, I just, I lay on my back and I just wished for death. Because there I was an athlete, but I was trapped in an infant's body. It was a completely frightening place to be. And you know I grieved the loss of my husband's wife, and I grieved for the loss of the boy's mother, and I just grieved for the new person that I had become, you know, in that seven hour period. It was a really tough place to be to be an athlete lying on your back unable to move.

Robbie Frawley  15:44  
Can I ask was that...? Did you have any prior experience with stroke? Had you known anyone with stroke? Or what was your experience with it prior to that?

Sally Callie  15:57  
Yeah, interestingly, the partner that I'd had for most of my rowing career, his grandfather had had a stroke and as a part time job while I was rowing, I was his carer. So I would live at their house, and I was fortunate enough to help my partner's granddad, he was 80 and paralysed on one side of the body. So I would help him, you know, with dinner and things like that. But it was really hard to put two and two together. You know, I always assumed stroke happened to an elderly person. I'd never heard of stroke happening to a young person. So I was being educated very quickly. And I thought stroke happened due to unhealthy diet. You know, it was that sort of stuff. I didn't think stroke could happen to a healthy young athlete. So I was educated pretty quickly. And stroke does happen. It happens to anyone. And that's what I've learned since is that it happens to any age, any health. Which is why I'm quite passionate about now helping those that were in my situation as well.

Robbie Frawley  17:07  
So what did you get told at that time by the medical stuff? What did they tell you, or what do you remember of that?

Sally Callie  17:14  
I remember there was... when you come out of a craniotomy, there's a lot of brain swelling. So there was a lot of being told that perhaps this is not a stroke, perhaps, the brains just swollen, perhaps you'll be able to move again, perhaps you won't. I guess there was a little bit of confusion as to what was going on there and I was told to have a bit of patience and just see how the body responded over the next two weeks. So I just lay on my back for two weeks, it was pretty hard to do when you just want answers. I'm used to, I had a newborn baby, I had a husband that was trying to, you know, look after our mortgage, and also a one year old child. So it was a really tough time to be waiting to see what the body would do and each time a doctor walked in, I'd say things like, "tell me, tell me you know, when is movement going to return?" and each doctor was as vague as the other. They'd just say they don't know.

Robbie Frawley  18:14  
Did you ever get a sort of a definitive... "Yes, you've had a stroke. This isn't going to come good now"?

Sally Callie  18:23  
Yeah. 

Robbie Frawley  18:24  
And what was the messaging at that point? Did they give you any information in regards to expectations of timeframes and what your rehab....how long you would be in rehab and the degree to which you would recover, or they expected you to recover?

Sally Callie  18:39  
So yeah, after two weeks, when there was no movement, I really needed an answer. You know, I was young, I had two kids, a six month old and a one year old and I needed an answer. So I asked to have another MRI. And we found a bleed on the brain, which showed I had had a stroke. And I think that made it easier because I could put myself in a category with others. And I could probably reach out to other stroke survivors. So when I got the diagnosis that I had stroke, that made things a little bit easier, because then I could read books and find out the latest research on stroke recovery. So now, I was told that 90 days, you know, was the window and I had 90 days to really, really go for this and I didn't want to get to those 90 days and realise I hadn't tried. I wanted to give everything I had and see what was possible.

Robbie Frawley  19:29  
Yeah. Can I ask a question about the 90 days? I've heard that as well, but I've also heard it debunked, and I suppose I find it quite a disempowering, sort of thing to hear as though you know, "that's it" and there's no point continuing beyond that, when that just doesn't align with what the current science says. Can you... I presume you have seen further recovery post 90 days?

Sally Callie  19:59  
Yeah, absolutely. Maybe the 90 days comes from when you get the most recovery. And it does, I guess help it gives you a time limit to push hard. But when that 90 day time comes, and I'm sure many other brain injury survivors are the same, you feel really let down like, is this how it's going to be for the rest of my life? Yeah, I've spoken to a few other friends that were in similar positions. And they too, you know, it's quite, it's quite difficult when you get to that 90 day mark. So it's really nice to debunk that. I'm still even nine years later, still getting progress. And that just comes from everyday doing something. So everyday picking up a pencil with my weak side, my paralysed side and attempting to write. My writing is messy, but it's getting better and better. You know, the more you practice something, the better it gets. But when I asked one doctor well how will movement return? Because after two weeks I still had no progress. That one doctor, he said the most amazing word to me, he said Visualisation. And I thought, bang, like visualisation, this is something I had done for eight weeks prior to the Olympic Games, when I had broken my rib, you know, I sat there in that boat park visualising movement. So from that point on, I felt really empowered. You know, I knew how to visualise, I was a good visualizer.

Robbie Frawley  21:16  
It was something you could do.

Sally Callie  21:17  
Yeah, yeah. And I think giving the patient the power gave me so much hope, you know, so I actually designed a training programme that was eat, sleep, train, repeat. And training was simply visualising myself holding an oar, visualising the lactic acid, you know, trying to feel lactic acid in my legs, trying to feel a crosswind on my face, you know, trying to hear the umpire. And I say this to stroke survivors or anyone with a brain injury that's lost some movement...we have to go back to a familiar place and try and feel that sensation that that place gave you. Perhaps if you're a golfer, you know, feel what the rubber feels like in your hand. And I think any of those neural pathways are still, it's still there, and I really believe that you can reconnect them if you can visualise a movement. We do know that that's how visualisation works, that it connects neurons and it fires neurons. And even if you can't be physically seeing the movement in your body, you can be physically activating those neurons by visualising a picture. And that was the start of my recovery, whether it was the ownership of the training programme, or was the neurons firing. But from the next point on, I started to get slight twitches in my leg and I could start to see that there was going to be some movement coming back.

Robbie Frawley  22:36  
And how long were you in in hospital? 

Sally Callie  22:38  
Yes, so I had two weeks in hospital. That was because I was waiting for a bed in the rehab centre. And then after two weeks, I was moved to a rehabilitation centre. I actually thought the rehabilitation centre was going to be like the Australian Institute of Sport, I had in my mind that perhaps there'd be physios and nurses, you know, wanting to coach me, and we would be doing research and I'd be like the athlete. So I was really optimistic that this was going to be a place where I'd learn to walk and dress and you know, break records. I was very optimistic. But when I got there, it was a typical rehab centre. There were six elderly stroke patients sharing a room with me, we only had a curtain dividing us. I was issued adaptive cutlery, commode, wheelchair, green uniform, green gown, and I was just told to rest my brain, and I can remember getting the nurses to close the curtains and I just burst into tears. I've never felt so low my life. You know, it was just a point where I felt, you know, like, this is where I was going to spend the rest of my life. You know, it was a really tough place to be, especially being told to rest your brain. And when you're given all the adaptive cutlery and things and the commode... it was, it was heartbreaking. 

Sally Callie  24:02  
Yeah, it was really tough. But I guess all that grit and resilience that I learned in those early days of rowing, you know, those those first few years going up to the Olympics, I was able to pull that out. I was able to pull out my Olympic diary and you know, make sure there was one thing I was grateful for every day and I was able to find meaning in obstacles. That was a really big one for me. I was able to become a bit of a learner you know, really make myself a student of my purpose and read as much as I could on neuroplasticity. And I was also able (the fourth thing to do) is just implement daily habits you know, getting out of bed every day and moving my body and, and putting all that research that I was reading about into practice. So slowly movement came back it was incredibly slow. incredibly difficult. But after five or six months, I was standing upright and able to sort of hobble around the hospital centre. Interestingly though, the rehab centre, let me go home on the weekends, but I just...you know, after a few weekends spending time by family, I surprisingly I just couldn't go home. It was so overwhelming, being so incapable, (after having been) such a capable, athletic able bodied (person), to not being able to shower without a rail or not being able to walk around the house without, you know, using the walls.

Robbie Frawley  25:19  
And this is during a period when, when you would be wanting... you would normally otherwise would have been the one nurturing... someone else who's sort of in that same position, who can't look after themselves? That would have been full on.

Sally Callie  25:34  
Absolutely, yeah, there were three babies in the house, you know, my husband had three babies, the one year old, and the six months year old, you know, they were not walking yet. So, there were three of us on the floor, you know, and interestingly, all the occupational therapy activities they gave me were pretty much baby stuff, you know, trying to put shapes in holes and pick up things. So I would sit there with my two children, and we would use the same activities and play the same games. And I would clap when they walked and they would clap when I walked. So it was a very strange time. I was an athlete trapped in a baby's body and...

Robbie Frawley  26:12  
That's a perspective not many parents would get...to be on the same level.

Sally Callie  26:17  
That's right. And every time someone would do something for me, that would take away that opportunity for me to learn to do for myself. So I put that into my children. You know every time I thought to, you know, pick up something for my child or get them dressed, it would remind me that I'm taking away that opportunity for them to learn. So it was great parenting advice at the same time, you know, the lessons that we can give our kids and ourselves. But it was a really crazy time for my husband as well, because we had a lot of financial pressures as well. Everything, you know, he had a full time job, and he was managing our mortgage and working. So it was crazy. It was really crazy times.

Robbie Frawley  26:55  
So...you said you went back home, and it was just too much. And so you went back to the rehab centre, but I don't imagine you wanted to be in the rehab centre by yourself when your family was at home. So you must have been incredibly driven, to sort of do what you needed to do to get yourself into a position that you felt you were able to go back in and support them.

Sally Callie  27:19  
Yeah, that's true. And it was just like training for the Olympics. I knew I had a job to do. And there was no way I was going to enjoy the celebrations until I'd got that job done. So I really got my mindset in the right theme that I was training for the Olympics. London, I think at the time...

Robbie Frawley  27:36  
Literally do you mean?

Sally Callie  27:37  
Well yeah, London 2012 was 90 days away. And I knew that I had 90 days to see how much improvement I could get at this point of time. So I worked really hard, there was no hope that I was going to get to London, but my mindset, I thought like an athlete, it was eat, sleep, train, repeat. And that's all I did in that rehabilitation centre. I was a robot, you know, I just focused on what I needed to get better. And my reward would be when I got home to my family.

Robbie Frawley  28:06  
So can I ask a question. You're saying your goal was the Olympics, and I'm unsure whether you're meaning literally "I am going to go to the Olympics, rowing in London", or you're meaning I'm going to align my rehab goals to the timing leading into the Olympics.

Sally Callie  28:22  
Yeah, that that's a good question. There was no way I was going to be going to the Olympics, but I had to trick my mind. And I actually had to trick myself that I was going to the Olympics. I even called...

Robbie Frawley  28:31  
So you legitimately? Wow! 

Sally Callie  28:34  
Well, I tricked myself. And it sounds crazy saying this. But I did call up the physio from the Olympic team and the coaches and they knew that I was not capable of going to the Olympics, but I just had to get my mindset right to remember what I used to eat, you know, for fuel for training, I had to remember what exercises I did and I'd go back into doing squats, you know, and, and bench presses, you know, just with one arm. I would do all these sort of things that I did to get myself to the games because that's the only way I personally knew how to train my body was to train like an Olympic athlete. So in my wheelchair, I'd wheel my wheelchair up to the hospital bed, I'd lock the wheelchair out. And then I'd try and stand up out of the wheelchair with my arms doing a rowing motion and I'd either fall forward to the bed or back into the wheelchair, but at least I was up and down and moving. So, I was trying to replicate the rowing action as a hemiplegic, you know paralysed down the one side. Because I knew I had these nerve, these neurons. I knew that I could activate them. I really wanted to reconnect with that rowing body again and that's the only way I knew how was to visualise movement and feel the rowing oars in my hand and feel a crosswind on my face. I just had to I had to really change my mindset and trick my body and trick my mind. Because I had nowhere to go. I was in a pretty.... I was in the trenches. I didn't know what to do.

Robbie Frawley  29:53  
You've mentioned a couple of times 'neuroplasticity' and how you knew... you obviously had some understanding of the brain's ability to heal and to to make these changes. Was that messaging you were getting through your rehab medical team or how did you come across that knowledge? And what did that look like?

Sally Callie  30:14  
Yeah, well, this was 2012. And I couldn't find anything. I could barely find anything locally about neuroplasticity, I had to do a lot of research over in the States, about CI therapy, neuro neuroplasticity, there wasn't a lot of information around. So I did a lot of my own rehab programme. I wrote my own programme and a lot of the programme I did after I'd done the official programme. Amazingly enough, my rowing partner from the 2004 Olympics had a bike accident, she was racing in the women's Tour Down Under, she had just won the national championship for the, I'm gonna get this wrong, I think it was the road cycling, she won the Nationals for, and she had a brain injury. So there she was in Adelaide. And there I was, I was actually over in New Zealand. And we were both reading on neuroplasticity and learning how to walk together. So it was quite unreal, to have won and I guess broken an Olympic record just years before and there we were both unable to walk. So we used each other a lot to find out the latest research and set the goals accordingly and go for this.

Robbie Frawley  31:27  
So how were you even aware of it? If, you know, as you say you were having to read basically, from information from the US.. Where did you get the tip off about it in the first place?

Sally Callie  31:38  
There's a book that I was given called The Brain That Changes Itself by Norman Doidge. And I got it in the audiobook. And that changed my life. In fact, that actually saved my life, because there's some wonderful case studies of other brain injury survivors and how they've managed to progress and maybe perhaps even improve their IQ or improve their physical ability from before, to after. So that's a read that I recommend to anyone that's wanting to know more about neuroplasticity, and how to how to maximise your brain and improve after some sort of brain injury. 

Robbie Frawley  32:13  
Absolutely, I'd agree with that. 

Sally Callie  32:15  
Yeah, so many success stories. And I didn't know until that point, that my brain was plastic, and I had the ability to change it. Because I was in a rehabilitation centre that was for elderly stroke survivors and many of those survivors were moving towards palliative care, because there wasn't a lot of improvement and they were elderly. That was my benchmark, I didn't really know what else was out there. So that book, the brain, that changes itself, set me on an amazing journey, on discovering some of the amazing things that were happening in research over in America for brain survivor, or brain injury survivors. So I felt empowered. I think often when we write our own training programme, we take ownership, it really helps our recovery. So I was very driven about getting some programme down, you know, in my head, or, you know, on my computer, and making sure I followed that. And that was just simply having a balloon blown up and playing volleyball until 11 o'clock at night, just, you know, when people had gone to sleep, just bouncing that balloon around on my weak side, hoping to reconnect those neural pathways.

Robbie Frawley  33:25  
And specifically for stroke, there would have been a whole lot of exercises that the team were giving you. So you were completing those and then you've mentioned that you were giving yourself your own exercises that were from your previous programmes in the lead up... rowing specific. Are there any.... did you find that in the recovery from stroke where you're obviously paralysed on one side, you've got full function in the other, that any specific exercises or practices that you were doing in that programme were more effective than others or that you would really recommend to people?

Sally Callie  34:03  
Yeah, I'd recommend, Visualisation was a big thing for me and those that have lost some sort of sensation in one part of their body. If you can find a hobby that you can feel when you think about then that can reconnect those neurons. I had a friend that was a stroke survivor that was a golfer, and he was able to reconnect through golf. So he really went back into visualising himself on the greens, you know, what did it feel like on his fingers to hold the golf stick? What did it feel like to swing? You know, what did it feel like to that hit that sweet spot with the ball, and that sort of helped him reconnect his body. The neurons back. It does sound a bit crazy, but visualisation is just neuroplasticity. It's just about feeling, smelling, hearing, you know, just reconnecting all the senses back to the movement. So for me, that was rowing, feeling the crosswind on my face and the handles in my hand, the lactic acid in my legs. So if you can find a hobby, whether it's the piano or the guitar or something you did pre, pre injury...

Robbie Frawley  35:06  
Okay, so that you've got those, those sensations and you can picture all of those things realistically? 

Sally Callie  35:12  
Absolutely. The more realistic the better.

Robbie Frawley  35:15  
Are you saying that you would... you kind of touched on this earlier.... but say if you were lying in bed.... you were physically not moving, but you were visualising with your eyes closed?

Sally Callie  35:27  
That's right.

Robbie Frawley  35:28  
The movements you'd be doing in the rowing boat?

Sally Callie  35:30  
When I say I was eat, sleep, train, repeat for the Olympics, I was laying on my back, completely still, but visualising the movement. You know, I could feel the lactic acid in my legs, I could feel my heart rate racing. My body wasn't moving, but I could, it was like I was back at the games, I just had to take my head to a place that was familiar.

Robbie Frawley  35:49  
And how long would you do that? Because that's, that's pretty exhausting. Like, it's quite mentally taxing to do that.

Sally Callie  35:55  
Yeah, absolutely. with brain injuries, or any sort of thing like that. It was exhausting. You know, just just thinking about, you know, the connection of my thumb on the end of a rowing handle was exhausting. But I guess I just pushed myself as hard as I could every day, you know, every moment, every waking moment, I tried to reconnect with a rowing boat. And it is exhausting. And when I was being told to rest my brain, I was quite confused. Because my understanding from all of my research was to be pushing the brain at this time to be really stretching. You know, those first three months are really important after brain injury. So I did go against the grain in what I was being told here in Australia, but I believe things have changed since so the Australian way is now to push yourself with neuroplasticity. But yeah where I was in 2012 I was told to rest my brain.

Robbie Frawley  36:45  
Were your treating team...were they aware that you had this whole other side to your training? 

Sally Callie  36:53  
No, they weren't. 

Robbie Frawley  36:54  
Was that in parallel? Or was this after you'd finished the program with them?

Sally Callie  36:57  
No it was all in parallel. I was in a public rehabilitation centre. There weren't a lot of resources there. I was told to rest my brain. 

Robbie Frawley  37:08  
But that would have been a bit scary. Because I imagine if you're hearing that messaging as well, there would have been a bit of uncertainty about what... should I rest? Or should I be pushing?

Sally Callie  37:16  
No, I was angry, I was just the angriest patient in that rehab centre. I swear there were devil horns poking out of my head every time they spoke to me. I was furious. I did what they wanted me to do, but then I wanted to do more, because that's what Olympic athletes do. You know, they do more. And they didn't really know I was an Olympic athlete. I always keep my sport very private. I'm not even sure why I didn't tell them. I think I was just trying to do the right thing and then take ownership after hours and drive that goal and get better. Because I think they set a goal that my goal should be to pick up my baby. And I wanted my goal to be to be able to run again. Because running is my passion. 

Robbie Frawley  37:57  
You're like "Not good enough!"

Sally Callie  37:57  
Yeah. So I think from early on, I didn't trust them. I didn't feel like we were aligned. And that's why I was so angry and driven that after hours is my time to rehabilitate myself. Yeah...

Robbie Frawley  37:57  
It's sort of 'Rocky' esque... 

Sally Callie  38:12  
Oh, man. I was an angry girl. Yeah. So I knew the right thing to do was to agree to that but internally, I had other goals. You know, I had a picture of myself wakeboarding up on my hospital wall. So I thought that would be a really nice thing to do again, you know, that's a really empowering feeling. But my heart was with running and I really wanted to run again. So those goals, you know, I sort of had to keep to myself, because each time I mentioned those things I would be told by the medical team "don't get your hopes up". You know, 

Robbie Frawley  38:47  
And you didn't want to hear that?

Sally Callie  38:47  
Yeah no, that made me credibly angry. So, the wakeboarding picture that was stuck up on my wall, I ended up drawing devil horns on myself. Because it just reminded me that I needed to be angry. And I needed to be driven if I ever wanted to wakeboard and run again. Yeah, and even today, I do get up on wakeboard, I'm not very good. But I just get up and all I can think about is that picture on the wall and how proud I am that    how lucky am I? And how proud am I to be able to do this again. You know, and it's just a really empowering feeling to push yourself and go beyond and know that you don't know what's possible, really, until you put yourself in these situations.

Robbie Frawley  39:31  
For other people who are in that setting, it sounds like you were really driven and fuelled... like the word that just comes to mind repeatedly listening to you tell these stories is just your 'drive'. But also the other word, as you mentioned, would be angry, like 'anger.' Is that something you would recommend? If someone was listening to this and they were sitting in a rehab centre at the moment and they were following all the guidance... and you know that's... you sound like you had quite a different approach. But a lot of the time if you're getting medical advice, we're very trusting of guidance we're being given and we think that's the best possible advice. And often it is, but sometimes it is good to question things. What advice would you have for people in that setting?

Sally Callie  40:20  
Well, I think all of us feel angry. I think that's a common emotion. We all get angry, and we all start to question 'why me?' And I think I managed to channel all of that anger into empowerment by being I guess, a student of my purpose and reading as much as I could. And I started to read and feel educated, you know, and actually feel like, this is my, this is something I own, this is something I can change, this is something that I need to take charge of, if I'm going to get myself out of this situation. So I think I was fortunate to channel all that emotion into empowerment, and then take it on, and own my own situation. And I'm fortunate now I do get to go and speak to a few hospitals. And that's what I do tell the doctors and nurses that if you can just give the patients a little bit of ownership, and they can take that with them and use that to feel good about themselves and feel like they're not a victim, but they are I guess more of a...well they're not a passenger, they're a pilot, and it's about feeling like you're in charge, you're the pilot, you're the captain of your ship, you know, you're not the passenger on your rehab. Yeah. And that's the biggest thing that you know, biggest message I want to get across to those of us that, that do have these neurological issues or concerns, that at the end of the day, it's our problem, and we have to take ownership, we can't be a passenger, we have to be the pilot here. And there is a lot of research out there. And there is a lot of second opinions you can get. And I really encourage people to take that ownership and make it their problem, not someone else's problem.

Robbie Frawley  41:50  
When you're talking about having to dig deep and how difficult it was and what hard work it is, I suppose in my mind, I'm seeing a picture of just, I guess the effort associated with persisting to improve and persisting to do the exercises and do the visualisation and not accept your state or the recovery as other people saw it. Is that correct? Or can you correct me there?

Sally Callie  42:28  
Yeah. I was given a lot of advice by the medical team as to what to do, which is great. But I knew as an Olympic athlete training is a 24/7 job. And I knew I needed to really stick to a strong routine and good habits, so I needed to tick that I got eight hours sleep, I needed to tick that I'd perhaps done 300 squats that day and a squat might be just pushing the wheelchair up to the hospital bed, locking the wheelchair in place, and trying to move your body up and down or falling forward to the bed or dropping back into the chair or even falling out of the chair, you know, taking big risks, you know? Setting yourself (goals), pushing yourself to do something new. And I knew I had no option. I knew I wouldn't be happy if I was stuck in this body. Yeah, so after about four months, I was starting to get upright and moving. I felt like I was making my way around the rehabilitation centre and able to get my own food and dress and do those sorts of things. But I needed a new challenge. So I found a new nurse that had just come into the the setting and I asked if I could just step outside and leave the building. So I combed my hair over because I had half of a shaved head from the surgery, and pulled my sleeve over the hospital bracelet and put my phone in my pocket and I went outside the building. And I staggered 400m...

Robbie Frawley  43:49  
So naughty!

Sally Callie  43:49  
Very naughty, but I needed... I really needed to push some boundaries. I was a pretty fired up patient at this stage. I just wanted to know whether I could cope outside the rehab centre because it was so safe inside and so secure. And I just needed to know if I'd be able to go back home soon. So I staggered 400 metres to the nearest bus stop. And probably to the traffic, it was peak hour traffic, I probably looked really unstable and cautious. But in my head, it was so much effort to get that leg you know to move forward and, and everything like that. So when a bus came, I managed to get on the bus, which was pretty exciting. And I was just so happy. I had the biggest grin on my face and we're winding all the way on the bus to the CBD. And I thought I just want to get to the city, have a coffee, and then hop back on the bus and come back to the rehab centre. You know, that would just show me that I've just got this sorted and I'll be back home soon. So we're winding around the streets and the guy next to me in his suit was looking at me really strangely. So we're all wedged on this bus. It's peak hour traffic. And this man's just staring at me. So I'm thinking what is he looking at? And as I look over to see what it is, I'm as horrified as he is...because my paralysed arm had actually fallen onto his lap on the last corner and I had to pick up my arm off his lap and wedge in between my knees. I was so humiliated, so ashamed. And I just got off.

Sally Callie  43:50  
Do you think he got it at that point?

Sally Callie  45:22  
I don't know, I did flash the hospital bracelet, but I don't know if he thought... I don't know. But I thought that could be my excuse and I got off at the next bus stop. But you know, just to feel that I'd hit my limit. I didn't know whether to be ashamed or excited, you know that I had found that limit and needed to head back to that Rehab Centre. Yeah. 

Robbie Frawley  45:43  
So did you get your coffee? 

Sally Callie  45:44  
I did. Actually, I found a great little shop on the way back. 

Robbie Frawley  45:48  
Beautiful.

Sally Callie  45:49  
So at least I found my boundaries, which is good. Yeah. 

Robbie Frawley  45:52  
Had they realised you'd left? 

Sally Callie  45:53  
No, no, you know, it was a pretty busy public rehab centre and I think they had a lot of trust in their patients. They probably didn't think a patient would go to the city and get a coffee and come back, s o maybe I pushed the boundaries there. But yeah, so be it.

Robbie Frawley  46:09  
Looking back now, what would you say were the most crucial and beneficial  things for your recovery?

Sally Callie  46:18  
Definitely setting habits and being strict with your habits. Because we know that habits compound over time. To the point where there's a checklist, and making sure you get the 'well being' things done: the eight hours of sleep, the good food, the good hydration, and even making sure your 'self talk' (is positive and supportive). So the habit is, ticking that you've done some good self talk that day. You've stopped the negative thoughts and you've replaced them with positive thoughts. That was really important. Also reflecting daily on what went well, that was a really big thing for me, or the 1% improvements - finding out something that went well or something that improved. So those daily habits were really important and I did write down what I wanted to achieve every day and I tried to tick the box every day. That was a really important thing. The second thing that was very important was being a student of my purpose. So making sure I read the latest research on stroke recovery. I made sure I was finding out the leading research, applying it to my training programme - that made me feel very empowered. Not just being a patient... I really wanted to be the pilot, not the passenger. That was incredibly empowering. Owning my story, owning my recovery, and owning my training programme. So it didn't make me feel like a victim. It made me feel like a survivor.

Robbie Frawley  47:43  
And where were you finding your....  in terms of your reading material and the things that you were then incorporating into your own training? Where were you finding that?

Sally Callie  47:52  
I think most of it came from The Brain that Changes Itself. Norman Doidge's book. They talked a lot about constraint induced therapy and that was my big shift. For me, constraint induced therapy is for those people that have lost sensation in one part of their body, and, you know, stroke survivors. So being paralysed on one side of the body, I was able to strap my good side, my strong side, my non affected side to my body, and this would force me to use my weak side. So my weak side... you know I would stagger up to a door and attempt to get my left arm which is my paralysed arm to turn that door handle. And even just by thinking about the movement was creating those neural pathways or reinvigorating those neural pathways. Now, you're only meant to do that for two or three hours a day is what the research says because you get so exhausted. But I pushed the boundaries a bit there. I think we all know each other. We all know ourselves well enough and I felt like I had a limited time to.... Yeah, so I went pretty hard on that. I did have a few falls and....

Robbie Frawley  48:58  
How many hours a day did you do?

Sally Callie  49:00  
I did it every moment of the day Robbie, I was desperate. I was in the most desperate place and I was desperate. I knew how to cope with exhaustion through my training as an elite athlete. I knew how to push through. And I was desperate. Yeah, I have to say I was not following any prescribed programme, I was writing my own programme and I was in a desperate place. So I pushed myself every moment of the day. I would be working that weak side to the point of exhaustion because that's how you train as an Olympic athlete and that's how I knew how to train... it was to push the body to exhaustion and...

Robbie Frawley  49:38  
Go hard. 

Sally Callie  49:38  
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I was young and perhaps the research might have been done on elderly stroke patients. I'm not sure but I felt I was young, I was an Olympic athlete and I was angry. I was fired up. There was no way I could stay in this place. I knew I had to call on everything I'd learned in my life, to pull myself together and you know, going to three Olympics was hard but being a stroke survivor was twice as hard. You know, I can't tell you how deep I had to dig, to transfer those lessons from sport over to the rehab space and how much that year tested me. You know it was the most testing year of my life.

Robbie Frawley  50:19  
Well, well done!

Sally Callie  50:20  
But the most rewarding at the same time, you know, when you can look back and realise that achievement. And I'm prouder to be a stroke survivor than I am to be an Olympic athlete, because I know how hard it is to survive a brain injury and get your life back again, whatever that may be, you know, whatever happiness that may be.

Robbie Frawley  50:38  
What is the best or the most worthwhile investment you've made during your recovery? Now, that could be an investment of time, energy, effort, money... whatever.

Sally Callie  50:48  
That's a good question. Investment in time would be my answer, investment of being connected to others. Prior to my brain injury I think I was on a treadmill, you know, chasing career and chasing materialistic things. I think a brain injury teaches you that time is not guaranteed. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. Friends ARE important. I do remember the best life lessons I learned while I was in rehab was the lessons from the elderly and most of those lessons were about time. You know, the palliative care, elderly stroke survivors that I was sharing a room with, said things to me like that they wished they'd followed their dreams. Or they wished they'd stayed in touch with friends or they wished they didn't work so hard. That was gold to me. You know, I was getting a whole year off life and here I was listening to the elderly tell me what their regrets (were). And most of it where they wish they had more time, you know, to follow their dreams, spend time with friends and not work so hard. So the gift of time is what this brain injury has taught me and I've applied that in my life today.

Robbie Frawley  52:00  
Beautiful. I love it. You've mentioned Norman George's book, so this might be the answer, but I'll ask the question anyway... what book (or it could be a movie or YouTube video for instance) would you gift to someone who's recovering from a similar stroke? And why?

Sally Callie  52:18  
That's a great question. I was given a gift when I was in rehab by one of the elderly roommates... one of the early stroke survivors. She gave me this beautiful Japanese bowl. I think you pronounce it 'Kintsugi' and it is the ancient Japanese art of 'wabi sabi'. Now, the bowl she gave me was broken but glued together with gold glue. And she could see that I was really nervous about being discharged after a year because I was terrified because I had so many flaws. I felt imperfect, you know, I walked with a limp, I spoke with a slur, my handwriting was illegible. And I was a teacher, you know. I felt really imperfect. So she gave me this bowl and she taught me the lesson, that lesson of that ancient Japanese art (of) seeing possibilities in imperfection. So she said that even though your body is broken, we've got to capitalise on our authentic point point of difference. So you've got to redefine your perception of imperfection and she just nailed it for me, because I think we all have a story. We all have a crack in our bowl. And she did tell me that that crack is where the light shines through. That's your point of difference now and you need to, I guess, be proud. And now every time (that) I do share that point of difference or show my vulnerability, I feel like I've got better trust, better connection, better communication with those around me. So that was the gift that I would give another person is the wabi sabi bowl because that perception of imperfection is something I think we all struggle with. And I think we've all got a story and we all need to be a bit more vulnerable in sharing our story, to be able to develop a bit more trust and connection with others.

Robbie Frawley  54:07  
Absolutely. Thankyou, that's a lovely gift. She sounds like a very wise woman.

Sally Callie  54:11  
Yeah. And I've passed that gift on to many (others). You know it's one of those 'Pay It Forward' gifts that I try and ensure we do share around.

Robbie Frawley  54:20  
Since your stroke, what new belief behaviour or habit has most improved your life?

Sally Callie  54:25  
Since my stroke I've been able to reflect back on my Olympic career and also on the year that I took to rehabilitate. N ow I put it down to an acronym so I try and keep this acronym going and that's the acronym of gold. So G O L D. So I always reflect back to the lessons I learnt at the Olympics and the lessons I learnt in the rehab centre. And if I can look at those strategies I used it really does spell the word GOLD. So it's the word Gratitude - making sure every single day I find something to be grateful for. I know gratitude is a buzzword, but really, it's asking yourself what went well, and I go to the extent of writing that down every single day. I also go to the extent of asking my children who are now 10 and 11, what went well for them, because I think gratitude really brings those positive emotions. And then the second thing, that 'Obstacles are opportunities', that's a really important thing, our obstacles have meaning. We are all going to face challenges. We've all got curveballs coming our direction, no one's going to be, I guess, no one's going to get away from those sorts of things. So try to find meaning of why this is happening, and what this means and what lessons that you are being taught. I think that's the second thing that's really important. The L stands for 'Leading from within', I really think we have to find out what's within us. And it's an authentic leadership, finding out our point of difference and being proud of our vulnerabilities and leading with those vulnerabilities. That's really important to me, leading from the heart and finding out who we are, and what our purpose is, is incredibly important. And then lastly, which I've spoken about a fair bit, through this podcast is the daily habits, and making sure you commit to those daily habits that change the trajectory of your life. And that's the biggest one, the daily habits, you know, getting a solid routine set up. And it's often the boring stuff that ends up really compounding and improving the trajectory of your life. You know that really boring stuff that we often let our subconscious take charge of. If we can actually be a bit more aware of what we're doing, what we're thinking, what we're saying to myself, who we're talking to, what time we're going to bed, how much we're drinking, eating? Yeah, those are the things, those are the daily habits. So that GOLD acronym, those are my four pillars of well being, and I live by those. I ensure everyone around me lives by those four pillars and the kids that I teach, you know, live by those four pillars, because I think they're really important. And they will bring better well being and happiness into our lives.

Robbie Frawley  57:07  
Thank you. What advice would you give to someone who has just experienced a stroke? For context, probably the timing is important too,  targeting the time when they've just finished their initial rehab, and they're about to re-enter "the real world". The time when you were given that beautiful gift of the bowl by your fellow patient. It's a time when there's a lot of fear about "oh, I've hit the 90 days, and I'm still not 'right', I'm not how I was before" where there's a fair bit of fear there. What advice would you have to someone in that (position)?

Sally Callie  57:49  
The advice I'd give, is probably three things. The first one being, go back and check you've got the foundation right, go back and check those daily habits. Make sure that you are getting good sleep, good food, good support around you, and you've got the right people in your life. Get all the foundation things right and get some good daily habits set up. Because I don't think we can do anything until you've got a strong base. I don't think we can move forward until you have that strong base: eight hours of sleep, good food, great books around you, educational books, talking to yourself in a positive mindset. I think once we've got that foundation, then it's about trying to make sense of what's happened to you. That comes down to the thinking that an obstacle is actually a gift, it's an opportunity. So trying to make sense of what's happened to you. Try to figure out what this means and trying to find something positive out of this. Perhaps you're now spending more time with your family, perhaps you're now looking at a career change. Trying to make any sort of meaning because I think science tells us that if we can make meaning of obstacles, we're in a way better place to recover. And then the third lesson that's really important, or the third thing that I'd share is that authentic leadership, to celebrate your point of difference. Perhaps capitalise on your point of difference, your authentic point and start to redefine your thoughts of what imperfection is, because that's really important. We're all aware, we all have FOMO you know, 'fear of other people's opinions'. When our body changes and perhaps our speech gets slurred or you develop a limp, but it's about that authentic leadership now, so perhaps, not having FOMO or FOPO you know. Don't be ashamed of who you are. Start to find out that this point of difference is now something you have to own. You need to own this situation now, and you have to use this to your advantage. So find this point of difference. See it as your authentic (point of difference) and let the light shine through the cracks in your body. They're the three things that I guess I'd pass on.

Sally Callie  57:49  
Great advice. I've got to ask what's, what's FOPO?

Sally Callie  1:00:10  
Fear of Other People's Opinions. 

Robbie Frawley  1:00:12  
and FOMO is Fear Of Missing Out.

Sally Callie  1:00:15  
Yeah. FOPO is fear of other people's opinions. I was a big sufferer of that my whole career, and I think many brain injury survivors (are too). It's so hard to go back to your career after these calamities, you know, after these brain injuries. I was, my job was a director of sport at an elite girls school. I was always up on stage giving speeches, and I was always driving school buses. I was one of the leaders in the school, and I was so terrified of going back. I couldn't drive a bus, I couldn't demonstrate anything in PE classes anymore and I couldn't give a speech at assembly. So I was terrified. But it gave me a new opportunity to change careers and now I'm in a better place. So sometimes those obstacles have meaning. And sometimes these things perhaps happen for a reason, you know, and put you in a better place than you were.

Robbie Frawley  1:01:10  
What bad recommendations did you hear during your recovery? (And those could be bad generally, or specifically for you at a specific time)

Sally Callie  1:01:21  
I'm not sure if this will answer the question but it's to avoid being a victim and to avoid being a passenger. Own this situation, research as much as you can you know. Be the pilot, not the passenger. Be accountable for what's happened to you. The last thing we need to do, and we feel like often doing it is point the finger, blame others and ask why. But that's going to help no one. So we really need to own the situation, become a student of your purpose, read everything you can on your condition, find out about the latest research and apply it to your condition. That empowerment is the most important thing. I keep saying this, but we've got to be a pilot, not a passenger. You can't be a victim or you're not going to improve. We have to own our story. Once we own our story, then I think we're bulletproof.

Robbie Frawley  1:02:13  
I'm not sure if this is the case (for you) or not but there are times when we have bad days, or when symptoms flare and that sort of thing. That can be quite intimidating within itself. If you have a symptom flare or something like that, how do you tackle that?

Sally Callie  1:02:33  
Yeah, that happens a lot. You know, it's probably painting quite a rosy picture. But the reason I'm painting a rosy picture is because we have to be optimistic, and we've always got to be flooding our brain with positive thoughts. Quite often, you know, I see no progression, I see myself going backwards, I see myself limping, slurring my words, messy writing, you know, being misunderstood. And when this happens, I just go back to that foundation of daily habits. You know, make sure I'm getting sleep, make sure I'm looking after myself, that I go to my mental health and make sure I'm actually writing down the things that went well, celebrating the successes. So it's about going back to the foundation and checking that's in place before you start the self doubt before you start criticising yourself and feeling like you're going backwards.

Robbie Frawley  1:03:22  
Yeah, good advice. Can we bounce back to your rowing career for a moment? You've spoken a lot about how you've drawn from that period of intense mental and physical training. Can we talk a little bit more about that period? You know, what were the highlights and what you learned that helped you later during your recovery from stroke?

Sally Callie  1:03:42  
Yeah, sure. You know, after one year of learning how to row and standing on the podium of the Junior World Junior Championships, then three years later I was at the Olympic Games. And that four years was an incredible journey. But when I got to those Olympic Games it was just like I imagined when I was in Year 11, but 100 times better Standing shoulder to shoulder with your teammates, and walking into the stadium. I guess some of the athletes that were there were excited about the 100 piece uniform, the dining hall that was the size of a footy field, it was, you know, awesome. There were so many great things at the Olympics. But for me, I have to say the most exciting thing was the mentors. We were fortunate enough to have Laurie Lawrence as our mentor. And I'm sure many of your listeners know Laurie Lawrence. He's a famous swimming coach. And now he's been with the Olympic team for the last eight Olympic Games. And he's always on the team simply for his larrikin, humour, his poetry, and he's known to plot excursions for Olympic athletes. And when I say plot excursions, it was the year 2000. And Cathy Freeman was due to race her 400m and as you can imagine, the whole Olympic team was desperate to see her race. We had limited tickets available for the athletes so Laurie devised an excursion to smuggle us all into the Olympic Stadium. And that's what he did. He was very good at creating lots of opportunities so we could support our teammates. It was the year 2000 and he said meet us in the Olympic village and bring along your accreditation, your glue and your scissors. And he handed out a little sheet of paper that had a little 80 on it with a little check and field athlete. And all we simply had to do to see Kathy that night was cut out the little 80 symbol with the track and field logo and cover it with my rowing one, glue it to my accreditation and get into the event that night. His plan didn't stop there Robbie, because he managed to get John Howard, the prime minister at the time, he managed to get all the medalists and get them to put their medals on. And we created this sort of triangle as we entered the stadium that night. We had John Howard at the front, the Olympic medalists down the side and all of us non medalists, we were sort of jammed in the middle. And the whole idea was to sort of bamboozle those amazing Sydney 2000 volunteers with all the glistening metals, Susie O'Neill's smile, John Howard, and his eyebrows and everything like that, and just bamboozle the whole set, and make our way in and we got in that night. And we also had Cathy win gold. And I think that's my favourite Olympic memory, you know, to be part of a team and celebrate each other's wins. And yeah, Laurie really did set the scene that night, you know, as what it is to be an Australian and to support your mates, which was great. Yeah, so that was Sydney 2000. And with two Olympic Games under my belt and you know, finishing in a fourth place, I was pretty adamant I needed to go to another games and see if I could get a medal. That left Atlanta, which was sorry, Athens, which was four years later. And everything in those four years went to plan for my rowing partner and I. We were World Champions the year before and we were the favourites going into the games. But just eight weeks before I managed to come off my bike and fracture my rib and then eight weeks prior to that my rowing partner, she also came off her bike. So we hadn't had a very good training stint. While she was rowing a single skull, I was having to do a lot of visualisation because there's not much you can do with a broken rib. So I would be sitting in the boat, parked (on a trailer) leaning against a tree with theraband wrapped around the tree, visualising every aspect of the rowing boat, you know, the back turn, the front turn, the recovery, the drive, the start of the race, the finish. And she was rowing in the glacier lake (because we were over in Switzerland) in a single skull. So we had a bit of a shocker of preparation. But the day came of the heat of the Olympic Games and we were pretty nervous, because we were considered favourites, but we'd had such a terrible lead up. And we took off in the race and the heat was really tough conditions, very strong tailwind, and we crossed the line in first place and broke the World Record. So we were pretty shocked at this stage. But we had to go with it, and then the semi final came along, similar story. Strong tailwind, won the race, and again, found ourselves in the favourite spot for the final. So you can imagine at this stage, we were feeling pretty nervous, you know, hoping that we'd get a tailwind. I had still had a lot of bandages around the rib just to try and keep it in place. But when we got to the start line for the final, it was a headwind. So I knew it was going to be a longer race, it wasn't going to be six minutes 47 (seconds race) which was the current world record, which we held, it was probably going to be about an eight minute race. So we hopped onto that statline ready to go and we went out to win that medal. We lead for the first 250 metres and we lead for the next 500. We lead at the 1000m, which is the halfway mark and when we got to the 1750m, we found ourselves in second place. And as we got to the 10 strokes to go (point of the race) we found ourselves in third place. And then as we cross the finish line we finished in fourth. So you can imagine, you know, going to Olympic Games and finishing with way too many fourths was pretty disastrous. So I feel like I finished that Olympic career with a lot of resilience, and I just couldn't wait to get on that plane and get home!

Robbie Frawley  1:09:34  
Well, look, this probably isn't much consolation, but still the fact you're World Champion and a World Record holder, it still sounds just so impressive it just sort of overshadows the the lack of gold medal I think.

Sally Callie  1:09:46  
Yeah. I guess when you're in it you don't realise that do you. It's taken me a long time to feel proud of that world record. But I look back now and I can see you all the lessons that were learnt in that period of time. Because I do look back and I see that lesson that obstacles become opportunities, you know, a broken rib actually gave Amber, my rowing partner some really good skills in the single skill to balance in those tricky conditions that we faced, and it also gave me some really good core stability, to be able to balance in the conditions that day. I still believe the only way we got the world record and won that heat and semi (final) was because we had the most amazing balance from all of our 16 weeks of single skulling and really random preparations. 

Robbie Frawley  1:10:30  
Do to that adversity.

Sally Callie  1:10:32  
Yeah that lesson of obstacles or opportunities really proved itself in getting us that World Record. And that record was only broken just recently in Tokyo, so it stood for 17 years, which is really cool. Yeah, that Olympic Record.

Robbie Frawley  1:10:45  
Very, very cool. What would you say, and you might have just told the story, but what would you consider the highlight of your professional career?

Sally Callie  1:10:55  
I was actually asked this question the other day. The highlight was actually getting selected into a talent identification programme. I tell you what, to be tapped on the shoulder and be told you could be an Olympic Champion, at a sport you know nothing about, I will never forget, I will never forget how I felt, you know, and I think about that now, as a teacher and (as an) adult, if we can tap kids on the shoulder that we do see potential in and give them the confidence to step outside their comfort zone, and rise above any expectations I really believe that can change people's lives. So that would probably be the highlight of my career, even though it isn't a very exciting thing. Obviously breaking a world record was exciting, but the silver lining, I guess, was that it was the lesson of an obstacle becoming an opportunity, you know, our most terrible preparation in the lead up to the Olympic games ended up being an incredible opportunity to break a world record, and then keep an Olympic record for 17 years. That was a pretty special thing to do, too.

Robbie Frawley  1:11:57  
Yeah absolutely! And can you describe to me any other aspects of your training, or learnings from that period, which became really helpful later?

Sally Callie  1:12:07  
Yeah, I think the first lesson, you know, we were taught habits, you know, routine and habits, and that habits will determine your future. And I can remember sitting down with my coach, and really talking a lot about the compound effect of habits, you know, that we are faced with 1000s of choices per day. And it's often those mindless choices, you know, for example, how you spend your morning, who you talk to, how you talk to yourself, how much sleep you get, what you read, what you eat, all those tiny little choices, add up and compound and change the trajectory of your life. I thought that was a really good lesson, because we often think it's about what school we go to, what degree we get, how much money we earn, who we marry, that determine the trajectory, but really it's those tiny little, minor, small choices, you know, that if we can repeat them every day, they end up compounding to determine our future.

Robbie Frawley  1:13:03  
And what did that look like in terms of fast forwarding to your recovery? What did that look like in that setting, in terms of habits?

Sally Callie  1:13:15  
It's exactly the same, isn't it. I look back to when I was an athlete, and it is about how you talk to yourself, it's about your self talk. You know, making sure you give yourself enough positive self talk and get rid of the negative self talk. It's about how much sleep you get, making sure you get your eight hours of sleep. You know, when you're recovering from a brain injury, it's exactly the same as the lessons that you have to apply as an elite athlete. It's what you choose to eat, how much you know, you choose to drink, it's who you let into your life, those sorts of choices, compound over time to determine your future, and whether you're a brain injury survivor or Olympic athlete, or you're just trying to achieve well being I think those sorts of simple small daily habits affect our life and they compound and change that trajectory.

Robbie Frawley  1:14:02  
Those habits and self talk, I feel like that's one I continually come back to because a bit of negative self talk can kind of sneak in and and even the awareness that that's happening (is a tricky thing to do sometimes) and remind yourself that you need to speak to yourself really well.

Sally Callie  1:14:21  
Yes, crucial. Yeah, the self talk is a big one, isn't it? You know, and who you let into your life too. Those sorts of things, who do you expose yourself to every day. Do they make you feel good? Or do they make you feel, you know, doubtful... sort of despair and compare. They were really great lessons to carry as a junior athlete into being an Olympic athlete and then obviously, surviving a stroke. They're lessons that I think we can apply today as well. So you know, at that time I noticed that as my performance in the boat improved, so did my academics in the classroom, which was quite amazing. It really was an incredible lesson to be able to transfer those sport lessons into life and vice versa. I think any of us can take on those lessons. We've all got our own stories, we've all developed grit and resilience somewhere in our life. But if we can tap into that and transfer it into our next situation, I think that can help. You know, for me I've mentioned it before, journaling was a big thing, you know, setting goals, and making sure I tick those boxes every day. As an athlete, that was essential. I had this mindset journal, just a blank journal, and I called it the As many Wins As Possible journal. I called it the AWAP journal, a A W A P, the as many wins as possible journal. Every day I would just write the one percenters. You know, what did I achieve that day? What's something that went well? Because when you're at that elite level, you're not going to see big progressions, you're only going to get the one percenters every day. And then when I was in rehab, that was also helpful, because a lot of the time the focus was on the 1%, the tiny improvements, you know, it might be moving my thumb, or moving a toe, or perhaps being able to go to the toilet by myself, or dress by myself. Those very small things really had to be celebrated. So whether I was at the Olympics aiming for a gold medal, or whether I was in recovery in a stroke survivors unit, it's very simple. You know the one percenters are what counts. It's the progress, not the perfection. That was a big one for me. I actually remind myself all the time that it's not about perfection, because that's unachievable, but that progress, and celebrating those small successes and do that by writing that down every day and looking back on the day and finding one thing to write about that went well.

Robbie Frawley  1:16:44  
That's good. Well, look, it's nearly time to wrap up. Do you have any sort of final thoughts, comments or advice you'd like to leave for people?

Sally Callie  1:16:55  
No, I think just stick to those things that I mentioned, you know, making sure those daily habits are in place, because it's those small, simple things that we do every day, that compound. And secondly, I guess, making sure that we try and find meaning in any obstacle, that's really important. And then lastly, finding out that authentic 'you', you know, making sure you own your story, making sure you think about that wabi sabi Japanese bowl and let the light shine through the gold. Because we all have a story to tell and our story is who we are, we need to own that story and see that as our point of difference. So they're the three messages that I'd like to leave anyone that's struggling with a brain injury.

Robbie Frawley  1:17:39  
Sally, thank you so much for your time and for your generosity of spirit and for your vulnerability sharing all of that. There's some really, really good lessons in there drawn from a place that is... I think it's really nice to see that parallel with the Olympics. You know it can be quite inspiring for those who are going through this, and particularly when you're saying "Oh you know, the Olympics were hard, but recovery from stroke, it's harder". You know it's nice for that (Acknowledgement), I suppose for people to hear that and to realise that 'yeah, it's not easy'. And here's Sally Cally, who's a world record holder, world champion, nearly gold medalist, multi Olympian. 

Sally Callie  1:18:30  
Thanks, Robbie. 

Robbie Frawley  1:18:32  
And she's with us! So, thank you so, so much for your time.

Sally Callie  1:18:36  
Thank you Robbie. You know, surviving any neurological issue is difficult and as I said, for me, this was way harder than the three Olympics combined. So, you know, everyone has a story to tell and I think we need to be proud of our story and realise that this is what makes us who we are, and we need to own our story and then move forward as our point of difference, so thanks for your time.

Robbie Frawley  1:19:19  
Hey, guys, it's Robbie again. I'll have shownotes on everything we talked about this episode on the podcast website. There's a link to that in the podcast description, along with the full transcript if you find that easier to follow along, or to find what you need. I need to highlight that neither I nor any of the people that I've interviewed on this podcast are medical professionals. The advice and learnings which we share during our discussions are not medical advice, and should be considered and reviewed in consultation with a trusted medical professional prior to being acted upon. These are our learnings from our experiences. Take what is valuable and leave the rest. 

Robbie Frawley  1:19:57  
Next episode, we're back to in person interviews and we'll be speaking with Trevor Barker, a former electrician who developed chronic low back pain following a workplace injury whilst an apprentice in his 20s. Following a long debilitating decline, his recovery when it came in his 50s was swift, and he's now back to a full and active life, working, in a loving relationship, happy, and an incredible advocate and support for others still recovering from chronic and persistent pain. He's a passionate and creative individual, and I look forward to sharing his story of recovery with you. Until then, I wish you courage and energy on your own journey forward. Thanks for listening.